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Subjects > Computers (Search) > Internet (Search for Internet) > Web (Search) > Ebay (Search)
Recently I was searching Ebay for the prices of the Libretto U105, and Sony PCG-TR3A subnotebook computers. I came upon an intriguing offer for the Libretto. But the text of the ad said that I had to contact the seller directly at his email address to find out the terms of the sales. Immediately this set off red flags in my head. I had a dentist friend who god defrauded out of two different attempts to purchase a laptop over ebay, and with at least one of them he had to spend huge amounts of effort putting documentation together trying to help the Royal Canadian Mounted police track down the crime.
So I sent the seller an email asking about their terms.
In the response, the seller, using an AOL email address, claimed to be in Romania and was only allowed to use Western Union wire transfer to accept the payment. He assured me he'd be using something called eBay International Trading who send me an invoice for the item. Worse than a Red Flag #2, this is stop, park the car, take the keys out of the ignition, and find something else to do entirely. Why?
I wrote back to the seller that I'd never heard of a process like what he was advocating, there would be no protection in sending a wire transfer, and I told him I would not be purchasing a laptop on ebay from him.
He then wrote back to me again, insisting on how safe it would be to purchase from him. "But sir we will close this deal trough eBay International Trading,we are 100% protected."
I decided to go ahead and send his emails to ebay for their consideration.
I went to their help system just to make sure ebay hadn't implemented some new system I didn't know about. Sure enough, I found their warnings about how unsafe it is to use wire transfers. They also said that ebay sellers can not demand payment by wire transfer. [Benefits and risks of different payment methods]
eBay does not recommend the use of instant cash wire transfer services. While sellers may offer this option, they cannot require you to pay this way. If you suspect a seller is trying to commit fraud by insisting on payment through an instant cash wire transfer, please decline to use it and report the seller to eBay.
They really can't be much more clear than this. However, they also list the risks:
So I decided to use their link to report the seller to ebay. That's when I discovered some brain damage at ebay.
The contact form had a subject line of "Wire Transfer Online". It asks for the item number of the ebay auction item. I entered the auction number, then my message, complete with the headers from the supposed seller's emails. When I tried to send the email, ebay would not accept the message, claiming "The item number you submitted is invalid or could not be found."
Well, this is not right. The item number was correct. Fortunately, they didn't lose the message that I spent time composing. I then went to another browser window to find the item. The normal ebay search box would not find the item either, claiming 0 items found for 7578690092. I double check my typing, and the messages, and the number matches everywhere. Then I go to my other machine where I'd been browsing ebay yesterday, and I look in the browser history for the item.
Finally, ebay tells me the truth:
INVALID ITEM
This listing (7578690092) has been removed by eBay or is no longer available. Please make sure that you've entered the item number correctly. If the item was removed by eBay, please consider this transaction canceled. If anybody contacts you to complete the sale, please ignore the request. Completing the sale outside of eBay may be unsafe and will not be covered by eBay purchase protection programs..... Items that ended more than 90 days ago are no longer accessible through the eBay system.... Marketplace Safety Tip: Never pay for your eBay item using instant cash transfer services such a Western Union or MoneyGram?Create|Search or by recharding somebody's prepaid credit card. These methods are not safeto pay people you do not know personally.
Good for ebay. Nice that they point all this out so clearly. But shame on ebay for making it so difficult to get to this screen. As you can see from what I've documented here, I had to be very determined to finally get to the ebay screen with this information. I really doubt that the average internet user would have been savvy enough to finally get to this screen to be sure that the item had been cancelled.
But now, back to the problem of sending ebay a message about this. This seller was clearly trying to demand that I use a wire service to pay for the item, and I was clearly on the ebay contact form for this kind of problem, but ebay refused to allow me to send them a message because they'd close the item. Should I have given up? I don't know, I think the average person would have given up trying to reach ebay on this.
But I decided I really wanted to share this incident with ebay. I know they closed the item, but it wasn't easy for me to find a definite statement from ebay to this effect. Perhaps my report would be more complete than other's reports, or at least they might appreciate a better picture of the fraud being attempted by this seller. Also I felt it important to comment to them on the difficulties I encounted in their system.
So I navigated through their contact form system to find a problems with sellers page that let me report attempts to complete sales outside of ebay. I pasted my message into that. I then modified my message to point out the brain damage at Ebay in making it difficult for me to send this information to them.
Of course the first thing I do is write this wiki editorial!
Now what?
Perhaps, just to document this further, maybe I'll send a message back to this fraudulent seller that I now understand how they are trying to protect both of us through the use of Ebay International Trading. and would they please go ahead and send me the invoice for the item. It might be interesting to see how far this seller is willing to go to try and reel me in. It'll be fun to go back and forth with the seller and eventually see how he explains the lack of the listing on eBay, etc.
Please continue on to
Here is the message I sent to Ebay today:
After contacting this seller, I found that the seller is insisting on wire transfer and the use of something called "Ebay International Trading". I noticed this listing has been removed today, but I thought I'd go ahead and forward you my experience, along with the headers to the emails.
P.S. I noticed I can not send a message from the wire transfer only screen because this item has been removed. I would think that even though you've removed the item, you might still be interested in details like what I am sharing. Please consider still allowing contact regarding items you've removed, and after accepting the message then redirect to a screen that tells that the item was removed by ebay.
P.P.S. The same for the main search box on the ebay site. BTW, you make it difficult to discover that an item listing has been closed by ebay. This item number is not "invalid", but in fact has been remove by eBay. I tried to search by item number for this item, and could not find it, and I wasted a lot of time on this today as part of trying to document this information I am sending you. I went into my browser history for a link to the item, and finally ebay gave me the message about the removed item. Please do not make it so hard to get the information that an item has been removed by ebay. Keep the item numbers live for search, but redirect to the closed down item message.
- Garnet
To: UserTryingToCommitEbayFraud?Create@aol.com
Please tell me about your terms for the auction....
- Garnet
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by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id y.9e.343476a6 (62952) for someone@internet.com; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 22:30:29 -0500 (EST) From: UserTryingToCommitEbayFraud?Create@aol.com Message-ID: 9e.343476a6.30edecd5@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 22:30:29 EST Subject: Re: Terms for 7578690092 Libretto U105 To: someone@internet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="
1136431829" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Status:
Hello,
If you are ready to buy this unit from me will close our deal trough eBay,so I will have to contact eBay International Trading for our Security and you will be contacted by them, so we can close this deal in good conditions and protection for both of us.At this time I am located in Romania and I can only take the payment through Western Union money transfer.I never make any deal outside eBay.The unit are brand new in sealed box, equipped with all accessories and 36 months international warranty provided by factory. To set up our transaction without bidding and 100% corect and fast deal, I need the follow info:
Your eBay user id: ... Your eBay email address: ... First Name: ... Last name: ... Address: ... City: ... State: ... Zip: ... Country: ...
I will contact eBay as soon as i receive the info. In shortly you must receive an invoice from eBay. You must read carefully the invoice and there you will have all instructions about payment and shipping.
Thank You
I have never heard of a process like this, and I have been an ebay seller and buyer for many years. I have no protection for sending money through Western Union, so I will not be buying a computer from you. Thanks, G.
Return-Path: UserTryingToCommitEbayFraud?Create@aol.com Received: from mailserver.com (root@localhost) by mailserver.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k05958A27712 for someone@internet.com; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 01:05:08 -0800 X-ClientAddr?Create|Search: 64.12.137.8 Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by mailserver.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k05958x27706 for <someone@internet.com>; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 01:05:08 -0800 Received: from UserTryingToCommitEbayFraud?Create@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id y.2b.15db7b9 (62952) for someone@internet.com; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 02:53:36 -0500 (EST) From: UserTryingToCommitEbayFraud?Create@aol.com Message-ID: 2b.15db7b9.30ee2a80@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 02:53:36 EST Subject: Re: Terms for 7578690092 Libretto U105 To: someone@internet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="
1136447616" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Status:
But sir we will close this deal trough eBay International Trading,we are 100% protected.You dont send me the confirmation of payment,you will send to eBay International Trading and Ido same you.After I will send the tracking number and you will send the MTCN,eBay will verify if everything is ok and after they will send us the information.
Best regards!
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